Raising over $300k for the Eldfall Chronicles Universe

George:0:00

Hi there.My name is George.I used to work at Kickstarter and currently I help creators run successful campaigns with my company’s YG and Fantastic Funding.On this podcast,I talk to world class creators about how they launch record breaking crowdfunding campaigns so you can do the same.Our guests today are SamoŽiga the founding team of Eldfall Chronicles.It’s their second campaign.Combined,they’ve raised over$300,000and counting and we are going to dive in to find out how they produce some of the most high quality games and miniatures out there.Welcome Samo andŽiga.How’s it going?

Žiga:0:35

Thank you for having us and thank you for the introduction.

Samo:0:38

Yeah,it’s an exciting time for us.Thank you for having us here.

George:0:41

You’re in the last few days of your campaign.So how has everything been going so far?

Žiga:0:47

It has been wild.It has been amazing.We maybe you can hear it by our voice.We are a bit burnt out but excited nonetheless.

Samo:0:55

Yeah,it’s been a journey.

George:0:58

It has been a journey because this current campaign has more than doubled the funding goal of your first campaign.So what is different this time around?

Žiga:1:08

One big thing is that I would want to point out that we are not making strictly a board game.We first started with a war game which does have a demanding audience and a higher competitive environment.Forming around it so it maybe takes a bit more to convince new people to try something like that because it’s a more versatile,diverse,open kind of system and not a one off game.Essentially,you are making an entire new world with multiple possibilities and not an enclosed game that is a one off product.So you need to keep in mind that the audience coming in actually commit on,supporting your future releases as well playing the game on the long run and so on.So I think that was one of the biggest challenges to convince people that this is a product worthy of their time and investment.

George:2:01

And so in a way,do you feel that the success of the second campaign is actually in a way the success of the first campaign because people have bought into sort of the universe and the system and now they’re back for more?

Žiga:2:12

Yeah,I would say that at least for the half of it,it’s thanks to the origin of the first campaign.Because at the time we were first time creators.So a lot of things went wrong and were not optimal when compared to now.And of course when you’re a first time creator,people you may be promising a lot,but how much of that you can actually deliver is very relative.Luckily for us,we were able to deliver more than what we promised,and the quality was higher than we initially thought it would be.So that’s definitely a big thing for us,and I think it also shows.On how people receive the product.And it is to be said here that Northern Wind on the other hand is not entirely a wargame.It definitely borrows some mechanics from the wargame but it’s more accessible to people.So it’s a dungeon crawler that only features some skirmish mechanics.It’s definitely like a versatile deep game but at the same time it’s more open for new players.

George:3:11

I definitely want to dive into your quality of manufacturing your fulfillment later on,because there’s a lot to say about that.I think you,you already mentioned you learned a lot in how to do fulfillment.People love the quality of your miniatures.But let’s go back to the very first campaign that you did.How did you guys even learn about running a crowdfunding campaign or like what resources that you use?To even know how to launch a successful campaign.

Žiga:3:38

It was super difficult.First of all,we are from Slovenia,which is a2million people country.So we don’t really have many people experienced in Kickstarter here.So everything we had to learn was learn from the internet essentially.And that’s what we did.So we were reading all the resources.We could,we gathered all the Intel we could on the whole Kickstarter thing.And yeah,eventually that snowballed into the first campaign.

Samo:4:03

That’s,I think,something that really shows in the second campaign.Because we didn’t have good resources to learn for the first campaign.So our main resource was our own experience in the first campaign.And I think that shows in the second one.

George:4:16

What were some of the biggest lessons learned or the hardest lessons learned during that first campaign?

Žiga:4:23

That,that crowdfunding is not a happy-go-lucky story where you just post your project and people will instantly,fund it and everything will be a happy journey.It’s a bit more of a competitive environment.

George:4:37

Did you guys do any digital marketing or ads or any of those things to promote the campaign?

Žiga:4:42

Oh,yes,we did.Do you mean like for both?But at the first time,yeah,we were new to it.So there was a lot of room where we could grow,but we didn’t really until now but yeah,we essentially,what we were doing with marketing is a bit of affiliate marketing.So contacting other content creators to help us a bit with the exposure as well as doing Facebook ads and things like that.Now with,for this campaign,we have leveled up a bit,so there’s a lot been going on behind the scenes when it comes to marketing and goods targeting and so on.So I guess,yeah we learned a bit from the first experience.

George:5:20

And are you doing all that marketing in house right now?

Žiga:5:23

Yes,everything we do is in house.

George:5:26

So that’s always what’s so surprising to me about creators.It’s like you have not just one learning curve,but you have10learning curves,right?Like just crowdfunding.Digital marketing,manufacturing,fulfillment.It’s a lot.

Žiga:5:38

It is,but in the end of the day,it’s so many tasks that asking yourself if it’s a lot is not even an option.If there’s a challenge,you just need to overcome it.You shouldn’t think if it’s hard or easy or whatever it is.

George:5:51

I love it.So one of the things That both went great,but that also proved to be a challenge for every creator is manufacturing.Part of your game,part of your product are miniatures.So for non game listeners,these are basically.Figurines.I know we’re not supposed to call them that in the gaming world,but they’re figurines.They’re made of a resin or a plastic,and then they can be painted.Yours are of exceptional quality.People really love how they’re made.So talk us through the manufacturing process.How did you find a manufacturer?How did you ensure quality?What was that whole process?

Žiga:6:27

It was a bit of a funny situation.At first we were talking with a different manufacturer than with whom we are manufacturing at the moment.Those guys helped at first,but in the end you sooner than later figure out that most of the people in the manufacturing world are just liaisons,working in between you and the factory.So that was a bit of a problematic because liaisons often do not know all the nitty gritty stuff that the actual manufacturer does.And to be honest,we switched three potential manufacturing partners even during the Kickstarter campaign.After the campaign,we actually had a bit of a panic situation because we figured out that one of the manufacturers we talked with won’t do.or rather liaison.But then we were exploring a bit of all the emails we received from other manufacturers and so on that are offering their services.We did the research,spent some time on it and contacted a few.And among these that we contacted,the only ones that really knew what we were doing and what we want to achieve.were Unico Games Manufacturing,our current manufacturers.And they actually,in the past,they used to work behind the scenes for many other companies,for manufacturing and so on,so they have more than20years of experience in the manufacturing world.But at the same time we were doing something new,which was also a challenge for them.And we worked together with them and ended up essentially,since we’re making high quality miniatures,these miniatures need to be made in resin.Other materials simply do not apply.Because either the molds do not allow the details or the dynamic poses or the material itself is essentially too cheap and doesn’t give the details we would want.So what our manufacturer did,precisely because we have a lot of thin parts,and so on,on the miniature spine details,they decided to go with resin.But even normal resin wasn’t enough.So it was too brittle in the end.And in the end they just decided well,let’s wing it and let’s create a new material So they decided to upgrade the resin material and now we have our current well Unico hard plastic material It’s how it’s called.It’s a resin,but yeah,

George:8:42

your manufacturer developed a whole new material just to meet your requirements?

Samo:8:47

Yes.Yeah.Basically.Because we want to play with our miniatures and not have them break because they’re resin.We pestered them long enough until they,yeah,created a new type of resin just for our miniatures.

George:8:59

That is a good manufacturer that is definitely a partner worth keeping so your manufacturing sorted let’s move on to the next topic fulfillment.This is always a difficult one.Obviously,you know Everyone struggles with it a little bit in the beginning.What was your fulfillment journey?Who did you work with and what mistakes can other people learn from that you gone through?

Samo:9:27

One of them is don’t ship during COVID.

Žiga:9:31

Yes,COVID definitely made the whole situation way more difficult than it was necessary.But in any case,my thought on fulfillment is that when you are planning your campaign,you should definitely not neglect things like fulfillment.You shouldn’t neglect it because that’s I could say that’s one third of entire process of everything.And if that part will be unsuccessful,everything else will be also.And you really need to consider and plan these things beforehand.Because doing that afterwards will just leave you with a lot of overhead costs,a lot of delays and so on.So what you want to do is really get partners you can rely on and possibly,if you can,be personally,connected with these things,you should do that.In our case,we were pretty happy with the fulfillment in general,but we do feel that in certain areas,for example,like in Europe,Things could be done.We are from Europe so but we have another partner doing that for us and we think that if we would be doing it ourselves as we will Also be doing it for this campaign.Things will go way smoother than they actually went,you know in the previous campaign But about fulfillment,is there anything else to add here keep in mind that the costs for fulfillment should be already factored into Your product,like all the freighting and things like that because it won’t give you a good reputation to charge your backers afterwards for extra,costs and things like that,that you didn’t know exist.And you need to factor those in.Yeah.

Samo:11:14

It’s easier for consumers to accept an upfront cost than it is,even if the cost is smaller to accept a,an additional cost later on.So keep in mind it before included in

Žiga:11:29

the cost.And definitely familiarize yourself with import policies on different continents and different countries and so on.Because these vary greatly and you cannot underestimate something like that.And yeah,consider everything on what will tax be applied,what kind of tariffs you need and so on.Which

George:11:48

one was the toughest to deal with for you guys?Yeah.

Žiga:11:52

Funny enough,Europe,our home continent.That was the most difficult.Yeah.

Samo:11:58

It was an issue of a policy change.Germany changed policy two or three weeks before our shipment arrived in Europe and it got stuck in the distribution center because of that policy change.Yeah.Immediately before we started shipping in Europe,

Žiga:12:16

like very simply put,if you’re a European company and provided that you have all the a lot of documents related to that you can technically import at,any country of Europe on your company,but as a response to also to Ukraine and Russian conflict Germany put some kind of measures into the whole import system,and it was instantly way more difficult to get things into Europe,and it took way more time.And,of course,our logistics partner didn’t really know what even to do about these things,and they were researching them themselves,and that,that took some extra time,and since the first Kickstarter wasn’t as big as this one,that also meant that there was lesser quantity to import,and of course that instantly means,you’re a lower priority.With the logistics center than some companies that have huge amounts of things that they need to import and well things adding up It instantly led to I think two months of a delay

Samo:13:15

two months of a delay for shipping for Europe.Yeah

George:13:19

Even though you had your products in Europe on time

Samo:13:22

it was sitting in a warehouse in Germany and we couldn’t ship it out

George:13:27

And were your backers kind of understanding of the situation or were they still really mad at you?

Žiga:13:31

No,they were really understanding and we appreciate that a lot.Like in general,we are so happy and proud of our community.They are amazing.They understand everything.It’s an absolute joy to be working with them.

Samo:13:43

I think that is one of the perks of creating a board game,or especially a miniature board game,because communities form around this.Instead of a one off product here,there are communities that paint,share their experience,help others.And these are much more understanding about issues,especially if you’re up front with them and you communicate with them.

Žiga:14:07

Yes,they appreciate transparency and we appreciate that as well.

George:14:10

And how do you guys enable that community?Do you guys have a discord,Facebook group?Where does your community live?

Žiga:14:17

We do have a Facebook page and Facebook community,but really the one that’s thriving the most is the Discord community.It’s super active It’s insane.Like the Discord is constantly beeping people are communicating helping one another Lately,we as developers don’t even have to answer anything because people do that themselves,so it’s been amazing.

Samo:14:38

Yeah,me as the rules guy,I simply check the rules questions once a day to see if anyone made any mistakes answering the questions,and that’s it.It used to be that I was answering all the questions,now everybody else does it for me,and I just approve them at the end,and that’s it,so it’s amazing.People are doing so well and it’s a really thriving community at the moment.

George:15:02

That’s amazing.I think that’s when you reach this sort of critical velocity,right?When the community starts answering its own questions and you just have to sit back and as the parent,you can look at all your kids,all grown up and the older children are raising the younger ones.

Samo:15:17

Yeah,it’s great.

George:15:19

One of the things that I noticed specifically in your community,in the communication,in the page itself is that people really appreciate the quality,but that’s something that obviously they knew after they got the rewards.Was that something that you knew was really important and that you made a priority?Or did that kind of just happen as you were going through these manufacturers?

Žiga:15:46

No,for sure.The quality was a huge priority for us.Both Samo and me,we’ve been in war gaming for20plus years.And we are still younger than30.So like a huge portion of our lives we’ve been into wargaming and one of the bigger traits of wargaming is high quality miniatures.And of course,like we started with Warhammer,moving to things like Malifaux,Infinity,Guild Ball,things like that.And all of these miniatures are arguably,I don’t want anyone to be super angry at us,but arguably these miniatures are of a higher quality standard than most miniatures in board games.Because they are meant to be painted and they are meant to be collectibles enjoyed not just as a plain pieces So yes,quality was one of the big concerns for us Especially because we are also in the painting hobby.So we wanted to really make something creative Something unique something that maybe pushes the limits of what’s possible even a bit basically to bring something new to the entire hobby of things.

Samo:16:46

It’s for anyone who knows the miniature war gaming market,you’re constantly competing with the big guys Games Workshop and nobody can compete with the amount of plastics they can produce.So you need to attack other avenues,create a different space in the market for yourself.And in our case,it was low model count.Very high detailed miniatures,as well as in the game play,very high control of those few models that you play.Yeah,everybody’s always looking for something to make them distinct in the market and quality and control was our defining feature.

Žiga:17:29

Exactly.As Samo said,yeah.And me personally,as an illustrator for our game I also put a lot of intention in every single model to look completely unique.And that’s another feature of our game that well,we don’t have duplicates.We don’t have duplicate miniatures.Everything is unique And that’s something we want to stick to Because I don’t think you need like a whole ton of miniatures,especially if you’re a painter.You need good miniatures something to enjoy

George:17:52

so as an underdog,as an,as a new kid on the block,you just focus on incredible originality,creativity,and quality because you can never compete on volume or things like that with the big guys.Let’s talk about your business.If you’re okay with that you did your first campaign,you then had a pledge manager.So some additional funds coming through that you’re doing your second campaign.You’re also selling on your website right now.Are you guys able to live off of this business currently?

Žiga:18:22

Oh yes.With this campaign at start,it was difficult,but as soon as we started with the Online shop and so on things started to change.And when people finally got their products,you finally get that kind of a seal of approval.When you see people’s reaction to it and when they like the product,and of course,when they told that to friends,things started to escalate.And yes,now at this point we can actually all work on the product full time.And that has been a huge thing for us.Cause we slowly transitioned like at first,no one was full time on the product,when the product got delivered,one was,and then two were,and so on.And now we are having more and more people,taking up the tasks,doing things.And yes,it’s been growing very nicely and we are so thankful for everyone for their support.

George:19:10

Are the Kickstarter campaigns profitable or are those kind of break even but it gets the word out and then you make your profit on your online store?

Žiga:19:22

I would say that it really depends on how you set up things.I would say that on average they are not profitable.They are good enough to get the word out and to get initial orders and to manufacture everything but if you set it up nicely and paste it nicely and you don’t do I that will maybe come across a bit negative but if you don’t do a money grab meaning that like you do a very low price where you Just so that A quantity of people will buy it and then you hope for like lower manufacturing costs.I don’t think that usually works out that if you factor these things in and actually plan it out and where you want to be in a certain time And how to make things sustainable.I think that’s like the way how you can potentially make Kickstarter campaigns profitable and I think that’s an important factor when you like devise something and plan something ahead

Samo:20:13

Yeah,I think our first campaign Was the second type of campaign,where we got the word out.We barely funded the first campaign.But we managed to deliver,and off of that,it’s looking like it’s gonna be a profitable and a great campaign,thanks to all our backers and all the word we’ve built with the first campaign,

Žiga:20:32

it also helps that the game we are designing is like a part of a bigger system.So we are designing a world,the world of Eldfall Chronicles.And that means that when people buy something from us,they can use it in different games.So essentially,everything we make is cross compatible.And I think that also helps with how people appreciate things.Because everything they already have is usable in Northern Wind.And everything they will get with Northern Wind will be usable in Skirmish and Wargame.And that’s also true for everything in the future that we plan to release.I think that also helps with the whole business idea on how to make things profitable.And then of course things like competitive,organized play,and things like that also play nicely into that.

George:21:14

Just to summarize.You’re building an interoperable universe and then you’re making it of the highest possible quality so that people will come back for more.And that way,your first campaign is just a marketing push that isn’t profitable,but it gets people drawn in and they love the quality and they appreciate it.And then from there on out,the flywheel starts turning and it just.It gets easier and more profitable to grow your business.

Žiga:21:42

Yeah,that’s a way better way than I put it.And yeah,something like that.

George:21:47

And on your online store do you see sort of year round,even between the campaigns orders coming in,or is that also still dependent on those Kickstarters?

Žiga:21:59

No,actually it’s all year round thing.funny enough,especially during the Kickstarter,that actually increased cause like we have an option to get things during the campaign,but we also offer them already like the first edition stuff.And yeah,people want to see the quality,they test it out and they can actually see they are getting something quality.And that’s another,stamp of approval.But otherwise,yeah,no,we have a quite stable online store functioning throughout the year.

Samo:22:27

With a couple of spikes around the conventions,that’s always a very nice spike after a convention.

George:22:36

Are you guys using Shopify,WooCommerce or something completely different?

Žiga:22:39

No,to be honest,we started first,we implemented the web store on WooCommerce.We build it ourselves or with the help of our partners.But honestly,it’s a bit restricting and we are considering of going to Shopify just because it allows you much more optimized experience.And it’s even better for customers,of course.

George:22:59

So yet another thing to learn about and to have a learning curve for it.

Žiga:23:05

That’s all perks of doing everything yourself because then you get familiarized with everything.And yeah,a little bit behind every single thing,how it works and so on.

George:23:14

What are some things that people can expect during a campaign Any stretch goals?

Žiga:23:20

Yes,that’s for sure.Like we do have stretch goals planned But like we do with all things if something won’t unlock during this campaign,it will unlock afterwards as a normal,new release But otherwise,yeah,we just released a few social unlocks that we thought it will take longer for people to unlock,but it’s looking like they will be unlocking them today or tomorrow or something like that.

Samo:23:44

All three of them in a single day.

George:23:47

How do the social unlocks work?

Samo:23:49

Basically it is extra work for us,extra content that we’re going to create in case our community achieves certain goals within social media.Okay.I think we have50Love Reacts on Board Game Geek,the biggest board game board game network in on internet.We have10,15re-shares on Facebook.Something like that.Something like that.And we have I don’t know how many likes on Facebook.

Žiga:24:20

So in short how it works,you basically want to draw people to well actively engage with the campaign Yes.How it’s going and.You don’t want to make the goals too high because that may discourage people.Yeah.But at the same time,it should be fun.It should be something not easily attainable because,it still gives you like extra work and things you have to do.But in the same way,we really want to do these things.So we just find it like a very nice engagement with the community so that we all go in the same direction.

Samo:24:47

And another important thing is that it’s engagement on a different platform from Kickstarter.Yeah.To encourage people to follow us across platforms to help multiple algorithms.Because all hail the mighty algorithms on every single page,you live and die by them.Yeah.So encouraging other algorithms as well,besides the Kickstarter is one.

George:25:10

Yeah,I think it’s very cool.I,what’s also really nice about it is I think sometimes With a stretch goals,just based on how many backers there are it’s hard to influence as a backer,right?Like it’s hard to get a hundred more people to buy a product.It’s just,it happens or it doesn’t.But I guess with these social challenges to get two or three people to like or share something on social media is a lot more within the reach of an individual which is why I think it probably,yeah,it’s a very engaging strategy

Žiga:25:42

for sure.And I think people also enjoy it and they cooperate,coordinate on discord and so on.So that’s a

Samo:25:50

lot of fun.Especially because they’re getting new goodies for it.

George:25:53

Yeah.And also it’s smart because your audience are gamers,strategizers,right?And so by gamifying the campaign itself,that is a surefire way to activate their gamer brains to go and do that.

Žiga:26:08

Yeah,exactly.It’s almost crazy when you see sometimes like how many things you don’t write,but they figure them out themselves and you’re just like,damn it.I should have made this way more difficult than it actually is.

George:26:21

And then you have to do more work.Yeah.Is there anything else about the game,about the current campaign that you guys would like to share that we haven’t touched upon?

Samo:26:29

I think most of all,we would like to thank all our backers.We at the moment have tripled the funding money from the first campaign.and more than doubled the number of backers.So that’s absolutely amazing.And we’re so grateful.So thank you.And we have so much more planned.We have so many more expansions and so many more stories to tell.And with the help of our backers,I think we will be able to tell them.

Žiga:26:59

Yes,they for sure made it possible for us to squeeze even more out of our output than we normally do.

George:27:05

Amazing.All the links will be in the description of this episode.So if you’re listening and you think this is a company I want to get behind,this is a product I want to have.I want to get into the Eldfall Chronicles universe.Find any of the links in the description.Guys,thank you so much for your time today.I really appreciate it.I know you must be tired and exhausted after the campaign.So I really appreciate your time.Thank you for sharing these lessons and the best of luck

Žiga:27:30

thank you.Our pleasure for being here.And thank you for inviting us.Like we were even a bit self conscious because we are,a new kid on the block while you’re normally having podcasts with like more way,like how to say it,more high value targets than we are.So thank you for the opportunity.

George:27:45

You guys bring the quality as always.

Samo:27:47

That’s our strategy.Our pleasure.