Dragori Games on how they managed to raise $6m

George: 0:00
Hi there. My name is George, and I help creators run successful campaigns with my company’s YG crowdfunding and Fantastic Funding. On this podcast, you’ll hear from the creators and my team about how they consistently launch record breaking campaigns, so you can do the same. Today’s guest is Alex Aboud He’s the director of Dragori Games, and he’s actually from Brazil. They have raised a staggering$6 million across all of their campaigns, and they’re currently gearing up for the next campaign, Tanares Adventures the Ultimate edition, which is launching soon. Welcome Alex.

Alex: 0:33
Welcome. Nice to meet you.

George: 0:36
Super nice to meet you. I have so many questions for you, you have a fascinating team history. You have a fascinating company history. But before we get into all of that, let’s go into the games. I think a lot of people know the epic games that you guys make but for those who are not familiar with the games arena, and Tanares, can you please introduce the games that you guys have?

Alex: 1:00
We always try to create games. It’s motto of our companies games for tables not shelves. So we always try to create epic games that you can have hours of playing and with very polish ed mechanic then. Entertaining stories and good miniatures. So Arena we started we would just make a PVP game, but we started to create an epic campaign on that game. And people like it the comparative aspects of the game. So then we started Tanares Adventures a game focused on the comparative mode. So then we create a big game, actually, I think it is maybe one of the games that has most content because we have a more than 700 pages of stories and quest and it has more than a hundred quests and different quests. I think we always try to create epic games.

George: 2:04
This is actually one of the crazy parts to me because the first campaign you ever did, some creators like to start small. Maybe they’ll launch a small card game just to get the hang of things, but you have models, miniatures, custom dice. Tons of print work, all the different adventures, like everything from day one. So how did you even manage like such a complex project?

Alex: 2:31
We studied a lot before launch the campaign. So of course we are board gaming lovers and we were part of many Kickstarters and catch many games. So we started to study each of the other campaigns and what do they do? How are the campaigns after this third, we try to make the things we considered the right things and avoid the things. We all I didn’t like this so much then me and my partners, we let’s create our game and publish it on Kickstarter. So it took some years to, to be able to launch, but as we do it by love, not by a profession back in’18 when we launched Arena, the contest, I after studied many games, then we launched the campaign.

George: 3:28
So the team, you and your partners, this is a very interesting story. So Alex is a doctor. Yes. Other people in the team are architects, law professionals, chess champions. How, how did you all come together and meet and then start this project?

Alex: 3:48
It’s by our love, by board games because even we had our other professions, we always got together to play board games. Then we started to study the campaigns and we created the game here. Then pre arena the contest here and here in my city. We started to show people and they love the game and they ask us, oh, let’s play Arena let’s play Arena so we say, oh, maybe we can publish this on Kickstarter, but we have to add some production value. So we have to create miniatures and arch and things that, that make the game appears epic. Because it, of course, when you play a board game, it is not just about the mechanics, the everything, the arch, the miniature the board, everything. Helps you to have fun and the immersion. So then we started to work on how to create a good arch how to make good miniatures. And then we started to study and we started a lot, of course the Kickstarter. And then we tried to launch the Arena, the contest campaign. And we were very happy that people back then love the game.

George: 5:03
Huge results. So when you say you’re starting you are starting this in your own city and showing it to people, that city is Sao Paolo in Brazil, right?

Alex: 5:11
Sao Paulo, yes. And many people play board Game is here. So then, people ask, people are asking us to play then say, oh, you are in the right path. So people are liking the game.

George: 5:25
So there’s a big board game scene in Brazil?

Alex: 5:27
Yes. Yeah, it’s not that big that we wanted, but yes, many, we have many people that play board games here.

George: 5:37
What I found interesting is that I live in South America as well. I also see board games being super popular. But Kickstarter as a platform, for example, doesn’t natively support I think Brazilian creators. Also, I noticed that in your campaign, most of your backers are still from the us they’re not from Brazil. So were there any specific challenges that you had as a Brazilian creator launching a Kickstarter?

Alex: 6:02
Yes, of course. We have to, the language is some kind of problem because as much we know that we have professionals that write in English is different when you are not achieved. So you thinky. In Portuguese it’s different, the conversion. Yeah. But I think as we, we play many board games that makes success on Kickstarter. I think it’s not that different though, our way to think, or even our, the things we like it from the Americans and European and any board game players. I think it, the most challenge was really the language, but I think the mechanics were not a problem.

George: 6:48
And are there any specific issues around taxes, import taxes, payments. Because that’s one of the things that I notice here in South America is if you order anything online, it’s extremely expensive. Payment methods are different. Is that something that you feel is holding you back from getting more Brazilians to back at your campaign?

Alex: 7:09
Yes. The real problem is the tax it’s not cheap to ship to Brazil And of course the dollar is expensive here in Brazil I think this prevents many people from getting the board game because the of the final price, board games from Kickstarter, of course because of the final price, because even if I get the game during the campaign, but then when you get the shipping and when the game arrives in and you see the taxes. Some people get scared.

George: 7:42
But then how do you get around that? Do you, for example, have for Brazilian players? Do you have like inventory of your game in Brazil that you sell locally through shops?

Alex: 7:51
No, actually we took some losses to bring to Brazil at a fair price. Of course, it’s not a cheap price, but a fair price. And of course we absorbed the losses.

George: 8:04
I think for people who don’t live in this part of the world, for example, if I order something from the US I have to pay a 60% that import tax on the amount in addition to the shipping fee. And so pretty much anything you buy here is Double the amount that people in, in,

Alex: 8:19
in the US Yes, because the 60% considers the shipping too. So if you pay a hundred dollars on the board game and$50 on the shipping, the 60% is calculate and one, in 50, not just the Yeah. So it’s pretty expensive to, to import here.

George: 8:39
So that’s a challenge for backers from Brazil and from Latin America. Luckily, you have thousands and thousands of backers from the US and from Europe. And so you really you weren’t short for funding I guess in this game. But then for you as a creator in this part of the world where do you find like the resources on how to launch a Kickstarter? You said you studied other campaigns. Do you know other creators in the region that you asked for advice or did you connect with creators in the US and Europe? Like how what’s your creator network?

Alex: 9:13
Yes. I, we study a lot the blogs like Stagmaier and other people that teach Kickstarter lessons. Then of course we talk to some other creators and then luckily they are very nice. We could talk and, oh, how can we do this? How can I do this? Actually, now we are friends of some creators and it’s very good for us because one of the things that made me change in my profession from. I was a pediatrician and now I work for board Games is just this community that is very cool. People are very nice. So I was fascinating by this. And even the creators, they are many of them, of course. I, almost everyone that I told you were very nice and help. We talk to other creators. We studied a lot, the blogs and then we could launch the campaign.

George: 10:10
What does your team look like now? Because you started as a doctor, an architect, and a lawyer. I’m sure there’s a lot more people involved now so what does the company look like today?

Alex: 10:21
Yes. We have many, we have people working on the RPG, we have people working on the board games and that make the miniatures and make the arch and even the graphic design it and support. So now the team is big, but all of this, if we control the artists ah, about 40 people or more. Oh, if we can’t tell the yes, the, of course many are not only. From the guard games we hired them from day arts, but we’ve taken in account to everyone. I think it, it’s this size or even bigger.

George: 11:09
So you’ve successfully replaced being a doctor with being the owner of a board game company. That is the dream, isn’t it?

Alex: 11:19
Yes. Yeah. It’s a dream because of the great community of board games. I’m really fascinated how people are nice and we can talk. I, this was the main reason I left my doctor profession. Of course it is not easy to be an owner of a board Gaming company because there are many challenges and even things that are out of control, if I would say some shippings or some other problems. We have no direct action on this, but of course, the people, they, oh when I will receive my game and I say, oh I see. It’s not easy but it’s very good.

George: 12:04
And I think I’m also really surprised because of the complexity of your games with just the amount of parts and whatnot. It seems like a lot to manage from a manufacturing perspective as well. All the miniatures, all the cards, everything. How do you guys manage that and manage quality control? Is it printed over in Asia?

Alex: 12:24
Yes, it’s printed on China. It’s not that hard, but it’s challenging, but not that hard because we are always talking to the manufacturer and then as I am a little perfectionist, I want to things as good as they can be. So when they send the sample or we see the videos they do, we can always very quickly say, oh, it’s not that good. Let’s change. So I think me and my team, we really try to catch the details to improve what we can.

George: 12:58
And you’re doing everything over video. You’re not going over to China to manage this.

Alex: 13:03
I went in 19 I was in China to see the manufacturer, but they send us video and samples to us. So when we receive the sample, we can take a look and make the final changes.

George: 13:18
Again, you guys just really blow my mind because when I look at the complexity of the games and how much is in there, this will be enough to be a complete disaster for most teams and then you see the reviews and people love it. And it’s all there. And it’s working out really well. So it’s I think it’s a great achievement on your part. Especially not coming from the field. What does your business look like today in terms of where you sell? You’re always launching your new games on Kickstarter? What happens after a Kickstarter? Do you just bring it into retail? Amazon your own website?

Alex: 13:51
No Tanares is not a game to, to retail because it has many miniatures and it should be very expensive before retail. We usually launch on Kickstarter and then on pledge manager people get the games, and that’s it for now. Of course we are studying how to bring some items to retailer and even make some games for retailer. But Tanares is not a good game because it would be very expensive if you sell on retailer because it has many parts and miniatures and the price would be very high.

George: 14:30
So you just make a batch essentially for the game. And then once that’s sold out, it’s really sold out.

Alex: 14:37
Yes.

George: 14:39
That I think that obviously is a big part of the attraction as well in backing these games. I think that’s a very smart strategy. So what do you guys do in terms of preparing for a new launch? A new launch is coming up, for example, right now. What is coming up to now’s Tanares Adventures: the ultimate edition. I know you have your Kickstarter pre-launch page up. Do you also collect emails? What is that process of leading up to your campaign for you?

Alex: 15:04
Yes I think to launch a campaign, one important part is the video. I think the video is one of the most important thing, because when a new backer comes to your page, usually it’s the first thing the backer will see, or let me see the video to see what it’s about. And to launch the game, of course you need to do the pre-marketing get the mails make some reviewers talking about the game, asking send the games for reviewers and use the Facebook and other platforms to spread the word so you can make sponsored posts so people can see the game. And the more people see the game before the launch, the better.

George: 15:53
So you actually do a very active. A pre-launch campaign, you’re running ads. What percentage, if from a campaign of funding comes from your pre-launch and then how much comes from Kickstarter organically, and then how much comes from the ads that you do once it’s live on Kickstarter?

Alex: 16:14
Let’s consider, of course it’s not precise. The first day, if you consider it’s the pre-launch, it’s about 40% of the campaign or 50%. Especially because if you do a good pre-launch, people will already have awareness of the game when they launch. Oh, let me back this. If they want, so about 40% Of the prelaunch and then the Kickstarter organically, if you can get a good day the algorithm Kickstarter, they put your, our campaign up so people will, oh, it’s a new campaign. Let’s see what it’s about. And then, and this is the reason why the video is so important to people that, oh I never know about this game. Let me see. And then they come to see the game. And then the ads, especially after the start of the campaign, the ads will sustain the campaign because people will see about the game and many people will enter on the campaign.

George: 17:15
Do you do these ads in-house? Do you hire one of the marketing agencies to do it? Like how do you promote it?

Alex: 17:24
I studied how to make the ads, and so most of the ads we do by ourselves, but during the middle of the campaign, we can hire some marketing agents, even Backer Kit to help promote the game.

George: 17:40
Again, very impressed by the fact that you just learn to do everything yourself. I have to remind everyone listening. We’re talking to a pediatrician here,who started his own board game company, and then when I ask, how do you run your ass? You hire someone for it. Oh, no I just, I learned that myself as well, so yes,

Alex: 17:55
we had to.

George: 17:57
I also think it’s very important because, It means you understand every aspect of the business and it means you deeply understand what works for your business and what doesn’t. And this is sometimes the issue that I have when creators use certain marketing agencies that don’t give insight into what they do, is that as a creator, you don’t know what works for your campaign and what doesn’t. And so I think it’s very smart to learn how to do it on your own or work with an agency that tells you what they do, it seems like an important thing to know for your business. Yes.

Alex: 18:27
Even you can discuss with them, oh I prefer, geez. Or, why are you doing this? I think we can get better results if we know what we are doing.

George: 18:37
The upcoming campaign, Tanares Adventures, Ultimate Edition, what can we expect and when is it launching?

Alex: 18:45
It will launch on June 27th. And of course we can expect an epic game maybe the game, the crowd, dungeon crowd with most contents because it has 900 pages and if considered the rule book and all also parts contained and the clashes are very different one another. So we really took time from our gaming designers. So no, let’s make this difference and it’s not different enough and let’s make good challenges. And now so the idea is to have an epic campaign, a good story and decisions and And we, and of course very cool miniatures. You can check on the page. Bringing the nostalgia of the G 20 rows, but mitigating the luck of the excuse. So even if you will fail, you have things that you can do to be successful on attacks, and of course, and We can expect an epic game again. And now even we got some feedbacks and now it’s we could address the problems so the game will be in the best possible shape.

George: 19:57
There’s this amazing epic dragon. That’s wrapped around this Asian pagoda which is on the pre-launch page. Is that one only available for day one backers?

Alex: 20:10
No. But it’s for free for day one backers. So it’s for free for day one backers. Yeah. So people, if people want to get it for free, be there on day one. Of course after you can get this dragon, but on day one it’s for free.

George: 20:25
When our producer Fran and I were looking at this, I saw Fran’s eyes light up. He was like, that dragon we have to get it. We will have to take some money out of our company budget to back the campaign on day one so that Fran can get his free dragon because yeah, he needs it.

Alex: 20:40
It’s alright thank you.

George: 20:42
Will you be having a booth at spiel in Germany where people can try your games?

Alex: 20:49
I think this year we will not be able to, but next year we will. Okay. We are trying to, now we are the company are changing a little bit and now we are focused on. On everything to make the things very efficient to produce games even better and faster. This year specifically we cannot attend the convention, but starting next year, we will be on GenCon and SPIEL and others.

George: 21:16
Great. Is there anything else that you would like to reveal about this game or any sort of teasers for the upcoming launch?

Alex: 21:24
Yes. I think Tanares it’ll bring you at least 200 hours of game play and really different quests and I think it’s to be very interesting to play and people, of course, can check the mechanics. I think it’s a very epic game for people that love the dungeon dragons and the dungeon crawlers games. And of course, from our part and our game designers will do everything to make always the games as good as possible.

George: 21:56
Amazing. So Tenares Adventures, the ultimate edition is launching soon. The link to the Kickstarter pre-launch page will be in the show notes of this podcast so you can click it. Is there anything else? What should people do? Should they go to the Kickstarter pre-launch page and hit notify me on launch or leave their email? What’s the best way to stay involved?

Alex: 22:14
I think clicking on notify me on Launch it’s is good because when they launch on day one, you can get the free Dragon.

George: 22:21
Alex, thank you so much for your time. This has been so inspiring from being a pediatrician to having raised over$6 million and probably with this new campaign, that counter is going to go up a little bit more and and managing all of that from Sao Paolo in Brazil. I think it’s an incredible story. Thank you for your time, we wish you the very best of luck with your upcoming campaign and we’ll see you in Sao Paulo in a few weeks.

Alex: 22:46
Oh, just send me an email.

George: 22:48
Amazing. Alex, thank you so much. Really appreciate it.

Alex: 22:51
Thank you, George